Antonio Brufau, president of Repsol since 2004 gave his first extended interview since the Argentine government expropriated the Spanish company in April of this year to Miguel Jiménez of El Pais. In it he spoke extensively of the Spanish companies’ point of view of the expropriation and the legal battle that has followed it.
Extracts:
Q: What possibilities are there of reaching an agreement with Argentina over YPF?
A: It’s very difficult. A negotiation depends on the will of both parties and that both recognise the true value of what’s been expropriated. Am I optimist? I am reasonably realist. We are going to us all the legal tools to the limit and will refer to the CIADI (International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes, under the World Bank’s jurisdiction) when we deem it most convenient. I hope we will be aware that this is not good for Repsol, but above all else it is not good for Argentina, and that we will be capable of reaching an agreement. The legal path should be the last resort to obtain that the value of what’s been expropriated be recognised.
Q: There are those who say that you, who has had a confrontation with the Argentine government, might not be the best person to negotiate an agreement.
A: This isn’t a personal issue, it’s between Repsol and the Argentine state, and the priority is that this company recovers what it owns. But if that’s true, the day we recover what is ours, that same day I’ll summon the board and let them decide what they want to do with my position. That day.
Q: Is Repsol considering legal action against the individuals responsible of the expropriation?
A: Right now we are not going against the people but the institutions, we are not considering at the moment.
Q: At what point did the relationship with Argentine break?

YPF logo
A: It’s hard to know. Until November 2011, we were one of the favourite companies for Argentina and it’s authorities, according to what they were saying publicly. In the last quarter of last year, after several years of efforts, we unveiled the huge discovery of crude and non-conventional gas in Vaca Muerta, these discoveries could represent a new energy paradigm for Argentina. Something so positive ended up being the trigger of the expropriation. It wasn’t good that it was a private company, in this case YPF, that would have the responsibility of developing such a deposit. Today, at YPF, all the talk is about Vaca Muerta. That’s were the origin of the problem is, in my opinion. There were no other problems. If last November, the president, the ministers, and even the representative of the Argentine government on the YPF board were saying that everything was going to the satisfaction of the government, I can’t understand how in January, after the re-election of the president, what occurred came to be.
Q: Is there something you regret, something you could have done differently?
A: If thought over it a lot. Today, I can’t figure out what we could have done differently. I spent three months trying to talk with the president and with the ministers when we started to see the crisis coming. There was no way. Surely other things may have been, but to the day, I don’t know what they could have been.
Q: Did Argentina take advantage of a moment of weakness from Spain, with a Government that had just taken power?
A: The Spanish government was on top of the problem and I feel very supported by it. I don’t they could’ve done much more either. The protection of investments across the world is not easy. There are bilateral treaties and safety mechanisms, but they aren’t immediate, contrary to what happens with international commercial rules. This is a problem that Europe is reflecting on at the moment: how to protect more efficiently investments in a third country.
Q: Repsol still has a 12% share in YPF. How is the company doing?
A: Yes we are the largest shareholders after the state. We want to act professionally. Our representative tries to defend our interests and those of the minority shareholders. The company isn’t doing too well. It’s value has dropped from US$18bn to 3 or US$4bn, which shows that the world doesn’t see what Argentina is doing with YPF well. When you analyse investments and production, the numbers are lower than last year. And the counting of results is also very harmed when you mix public with private. They [the results] are the fruit of an absolutely erroneous decision. There were other solutions through negotiation.

The YPF tower in Puerto Madero, Buenos Aires (Luis Argerich, Wikimedia)
Q: In what other countries does Repsol perceive there is a risk for its investments?
A: We are present in more than 30 countries and we’ve seen many nationalisation processes or negotiations in Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia, Libya… In all these cases we have sat down and negotiated. […] If the Argentine government had wanted to participate more actively in Vaca Muerta, we would have sat down to see how we could incorporate their interests in the development of this new area of crude or non-conventional gases. We were willing. But that’s one thing and another is to say: “Go away, I’ll replace you”.
Q: You have called it a robbery.
A: I don’t like using those words because in the end we are in court to see how to be compensated for the damage that was caused. And I still believe, and hope, that both parties will reach agreements over YPF. It would have been earlier before, but I hope we will reach an agreement for them to compensate us for what was ours. Every country has a right to nationalise what it believes is important, but that involves a faire price and payment. A fair payment, not what the nationalising side decides.
Q: Are there at the moment any concrete negotiations taking place?
A: Discretion is very important. We are using all necessary channels.
Q: Hugo Chavez’s government recommended not taking the judicial route. How are relations with the Venezuelan government ?
A: They couldn’t be better. When that appeared in the media, I met with the corresponding minister and the people responsible in Venezuela, and they suggested, among other things, that PDVSA (the Venezuela national oil company) participate in the resolution of the case. I would be more than happy with that, and so I told them, for PDVSA, that is a friend of both Repsol and Argentina, to participate.